Why Old Agency Thinking Fails (With Cindy Slaughter)

Cindy Slaughter from Avocado Estate Agents joins us for a straight-talking conversation on what modern estate agency really requires to grow.

She shares the moment she walked into a sales pitch and walked out as Marketing Director and uses that to unpack the mindset shifts needed to build a stronger, more intentional business. This episode explores why most rebrands fail, what effective marketing systems actually look like in practice and how apprenticeships, when led properly, can become a genuine competitive advantage.

The discussion moves beyond tactics into leadership, team development, and the reality of letting go of outdated ways of working. From developing Gen Z talent to understanding how AI will reshape roles in the near future, this is about building a business that’s aligned with where the market is going, not where it’s been.

If you’re serious about growth and want a clearer way of thinking about brand, people, and performance, this episode will give you plenty to reflect on.

Leading Estate Agents of the World – Founding Members Launch

We’ll soon be introducing the first founding members of the network.
If you'd like to be considered for the launch event, register here

https://estateagencyx.co.uk/leadingestateagentsoftheworld

This episode is sponsored by Iceberg Digital, the AI Operating System for Estate Agents. They replace outdated CRMs, disconnected marketing tools, and manual prospecting with one intelligent, AI-driven ecosystem, built to increase revenue per employee and future-proof your agency. https://iceberg-digital.co.uk/

Transcript

Welcome And What To Expect

Speaker 4 0:00

So on this episode of Estate Agency x, I've got Cindy, marketing director of the Avovado Property Group and Momentum Group as well. We cover a wealth of things. So if you're interested in understanding about how to do a rebrand, uh employee apprentices into a business, uh strategic marketing, and anything around the future of a state agency, this is a really good episode, and I really hope you enjoy it.

Speaker 3 0:21

A state and CX, the UK's number one estate agency podcast discussing the future of a state agency, entrepreneurship and business. Host Mark Burgess and Rob Brady.

Speaker 4 0:33

So Cindy, welcome back. Uh for anyone listening actually out there. For the second time, because you came here about two months ago and the file got corrupted. It wasn't a bad podcast anyway, though. We haven't prompted you to come back and do it properly. Um so for anyone listening, anyone watching out there, um, we've got Cindy from Momentum Group or Avocado. Um so, Cindy, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 1 0:57

Thank you.

Speaker 4 0:58

I'm gonna try and ignore what we discussed last time. We're keeping it fresh this time. Yeah. Um so for anyone listening out there, um, over to you, Cindy.

Cindy’s Squiggly Career Story

Speaker 4 1:06

Uh, give us a bit of background of how you arrived into where you are today.

Speaker 1 1:11

Where I am today. So I've had quite a squiggly career, but a squiggly career. Yeah, have you ever heard of squiggly careers?

Speaker 5 1:20

Great one.

Speaker 1 1:21

Yeah, look it up. It's like a it's a genuine concept of how um no career is actually linear, and how you can take learnings from each point of your journey and apply it to where you you are today. So I kind of went a bit back on myself because I was an estate agent for four and a half years, stepped out of the industry, um, built up a career in which I then ended up being second in command of a marketing agency, learned everything I needed to know about that, then got on a sales pitch to Avocado Property, trying to say, come let my agency come fill in the gaps of what you need for your estate agency, brokerage, and walked out effectively with a marketing director job for Avocado Property and the wider momentum group.

Speaker 4 2:13

Yeah. Okay, so right, let's wind it back. What

Estate Agency Reality And Gender Bias

Speaker 4 2:18

was so how long ago was it that you were an agency and what was what was that like for you? Just so because I've it's to what I find really quite interesting. It's nice to have working with you behind the scenes is uh I get the best of both worlds in the fact that I have someone who understands agency and someone who understands marketing. Sometimes I find it really hard working with a mareteer who doesn't understand how agency works. So so what was what was your what was your four-year period? You said you said four-year period was it? Yeah. Yeah. What was your four-year period like? Be honest. Good or bad? What was it what was the good part?

Speaker 1 2:56

Um the good part was I actually really no, I did actually really enjoy the job. Yeah. In I loved getting people moved.

Speaker 4 3:07

Yeah, okay. So what what did you what did you originally go in as?

Speaker 1 3:10

Uh weekender.

Speaker 4 3:11

Weekender, yeah.

Speaker 1 3:13

So I was actually self-employed at the time. I was a self-employed personal trainer. I ran my own business for six years. Um, I had a clinic um and I worked with a sports therapist. And the business I could sense was not going particularly. It wasn't that it wasn't going well, we just weren't get really getting anywhere. And then I was also going through a divorce. And I think you and I have talked before about effectively hitting the fuck it button. Yeah. And I was like, right, I'm I'm getting rid of him. I might as well get rid of this business as well because none of this is working out for me. And um, as part of just making sure I had a little bit of extra income, I'd met a friend through the running club, another estate agent called Scott Marlin. Um, and he's he'd been an estate agent for years. And he said, you know what, you could come and do a bit of weekend work for us. And then he was my biggest advocate in the sense of when I said I'm gonna, I'm gonna bid off the business, he effectively told them, like, give Cindy a job. Um so I then went in as a sales neg and worked in that until I went on maternity leave, came back and did sales progression for a while. So I've kind of done across the board. One thing I didn't do, and it wasn't because I couldn't, it was because of how women were viewed in the business. I never was allowed to go out and do valuations. And every time I pick up the phone to Scott, he just he says, if you'd been allowed to go out and do valuations, you would have killed that market because you've got that personal side to you. You wanted to get people moved, you would have stood out as a female agent in that area. I would have been up against Dan and Neil from Romans, who are now obviously the leading partners of Avocado.

Speaker 4 5:06

Um that would have been a fight out there.

Speaker 1 5:08

Would have been a fight, but it was a fight I would have taken on.

Speaker 4 5:11

Okay, so I wanna I want to cover one thing. Like, first thing is, God, going from a a viewing weekender to actually negging. Like that is I we used to have a couple of viewing people in, and now I used to think, you're such the fucking cream of the crop of the best bit of the job, isn't it? But key for the door, show someone around, show these lovely houses, enjoy that part. Yeah. And then you go, hand the keys back in and go, right, you deal with all the other shit that's gonna come off the end of over the next few months. Um, yeah, I used to think like I'd love just that was my like a retirement job would be so good, wouldn't it? Like what you're doing for a Saturday. Um second part, like that, the hierarchy that that has. I mean, I've worked in businesses that I found frustrating, and actually some of the best um values I've ever come across have been females. Yeah. I I think it comes there, you know, when it comes to the dynamics, no different, I think, of a male dyne male, you know, the masculine energy and a female energy. I think I think there's um certain certain females no different than the men. Like some guys like to do administration and some like to do their sales hunger. Yeah. And there's always a grey line between like confidence and cockiness when it comes to the sales side. And I think the same with the the women's side. I think generally women were discounted in that sector, yeah, but they're no different than the the type of personality that comes with it and your skill set. Like the bit I think a state agency missed it was a lot of the empathetic side that the brain just doesn't have a lot of within the metal psychology. Um so so was that was that the what is that the one of the reasons why I know you see you said obviously went on to maternity leave. And did that sort of change the direction of what you wanted to get in the out of the industry, or did it the perception change of your life?

Parenthood Clash With Old School Work

Speaker 4 7:06

Because naturally, you know, it does relevant when you have kids, doesn't it?

Speaker 1 7:09

Oh, 100%. Um, I, you know, I went back in. I've never actually told this part of the story, actually, because I've mentioned it on a few podcasts of how I was kind of treated as a bit of like a a hot potato, as and when I announced that I was pregnant, a bit like, oh God, what do we do with this? Um, but as and when I then came back into the office, um, one of the agreements we'd made on me coming back in my kind of return to work was that I'd be given a laptop. Because I said, Look, I'm putting the baby into nursery. She will get ill. Like I am telling you now, this is gonna happen. And when I walked back in on my first day, I said, How's that laptop going? They went, No laptop. Well, well, what happens when I can't get to work because the baby's ill? Well, dunno. Inevitably, inevitably, she starts getting ill. Um, and you kind of go through that cycle as a parent, you know the cycle that I'm talking about of just bug after bug. Yep, absolutely. And um after a a few rounds of this, the I went in one day very early to try and get ahead of some work. And the MD happened to be in, and I said, Oh, I'm coming in early to get some work done because the baby's ill again. And he said, Well, this has got to stop. What he doesn't know, well, he probably worked it out. I'd actually, I was going to a job interview, but I was so hacked off by that thing that I thought I just thought I have to find something that suits me.

Speaker 4 8:51

And were you doing, you said you went, did you go back? It was at a position of sales progression as well. Yeah, because it's like, you know, you don't even need to be in the fucking office for that. Like, I used to have a lady called Rachel, she still works at the old company now, and she was a phenomenal sales progressor. I mean, she blessed her. She she she was supposed to work three days a week, but she's one of those people that still like you know, she's on she's on all the time.

Speaker 2 9:12

Yeah.

Speaker 4 9:12

And like, she didn't need to, she was never in the office. No, she didn't need to be in the office, she didn't need to be present and chained to a desk.

Speaker 2 9:18

No.

Speaker 4 9:19

It's crazy, like, and that was like pre I assumed obviously pre-COVID. So like, you know, I mean, just how the world, how the world I mean, so I know a lot of the agency brands and a lot of obviously st businesses still operate in that same way.

Speaker 2 9:33

Yeah.

Speaker 4 9:34

Um, crazy. Yeah. And then so so was that to was that the point where you thought, do you know what I'm done with agency?

Speaker 1 9:40

Yeah.

Speaker 4 9:40

Yeah.

Speaker 1 9:41

And weirdly, it was that I'd had a phone call from um one of the directors a few weeks beforehand. And I'd basically, I was so tired, I'd mucked up on a message. Uh, but all he needed to do was phone a solicitor back. He was like, Well, what's the full message? It doesn't matter, just give the solicitor a call. I've had three hours' sleep with an ill baby. Like, at the end of the day, you got the message to call the solicitor. And he gave me such an earful that I thought, I'm gonna go and look for another job. Like literally there and then. And I typed in like jobs, I put my skill set into Google.

Switching To Coworking And Culture

Speaker 1 10:22

And this job came back, and I thought, I don't know what that is. I I had no idea what it was, but I thought I can do that. And it was co-working. So a bit like the space that we're in now, it was running and selling um get office space. So I was just like, as and when I realized what it was, I was like, okay, that's just a corporate version of what I'm doing anyway. And then we had to run the site, market the site, um, do all the operations, do the PL, everything, and work with the other um managers across the country who were doing the same thing in different sites and kind of learn lessons. But they were really into what it meant for people to be in that place. So we were actually targeted on uh what they called the three C's, which was um connection, collaboration, and celebration. So you'd have to connect people.

Speaker 5 11:17

Amazing.

Speaker 1 11:18

Um, yeah, get sort of document the collaboration, and then if that if something came off the back of it, you'd take them out to celebrate or you'd do something to market, and that's how they ran the business, rather than it being all about the numbers.

Speaker 4 11:31

And that's like it's like we've just literally done this only a few weeks ago in one of our workshops, and like in 99% of business owners or people, if you said, like, right, I'm just gonna run a business on these three things, and they'd be thinking about what's the other stuff. But it's so, it's so like when you operate in a business like you've just done, yeah, where like can I have a laptop and they're like, no, you can't have a laptop, you've got to be in a you've got to be at your desk and we don't have any understanding. And then you go and work in a business that is like just fundamentally works in a completely different philosophy philosophy, ideology, way of working, yeah, is so polar in like how archaic businesses are in general, yeah.

Speaker 1 12:17

Absolutely. And how that impacts you as an individual as well. Like I lost myself initially within a state agency. I I knew I could do more and I could do better, and I had something to say. I just lost my ability to be able to say it. And I could run my own business for six years, for God's sake. Like and going into that, like I knew I could do it, but I wasn't allowed to. And then I remember stepping into this next business. And my first managers meeting, they were saying, you know, we're we're targeting ourselves towards X type of business with this number of people, um, the kind of startups, et cetera, et cetera. And I went, I've got something to say. Shaking. And they were like, Well, I went, that's great. That business model doesn't work in my site. And they went, sorry. I went, I'm working in Slough. Like I'm I'm dealing with satellite offices and overflows for Telefonica and Orange, and you know, that doesn't apply to me. So let's talk about how this is gonna work. And they were like, Oh, okay. And I said, it's gonna be fine because I will fill the offices. Um there will be bums on seats, but how I approach those clients is gonna be very different to how it works in Bloomsbury or Victoria. Oh shit. And I just remember thinking, God, I've just said that. I'm gonna lose my job, I'm gonna lose my job. But they they didn't care because I had a voice and I could use it.

Speaker 4 13:47

And it especially when it comes back to what you're saying about those three C's.

Speaker 1 13:50

Yeah.

Speaker 4 13:50

If like if you can articulate why this is important and how you're gonna do it in the three C's, it doesn't matter what their perceived view is on your different type of it comes back to like the demographics could be different, but the experience and what you're trying to deliver is still the same outcome. Exactly. So it doesn't really matter in that way as long as the outcomes are filled, and then that then brings the metrics in, which brings the income in and whatever usual shit that everyone talks about as an important part of the state agency or business in general. So how long are you in that business for?

Speaker 1 14:17

Uh just over a year.

Speaker 4 14:18

Um and and so what so did that sort of reconnect back your love towards?

Speaker 1 14:25

You know what? The most hilarious thing was is that part of our three Cs is that you could connect them with any business. It didn't have to just be within the network.

Speaker 5 14:35

Yeah.

Speaker 1 14:36

So who was who do you think I was connecting them with? Estate agents and mortgage brokers, because that's who I knew. Yeah. So I was forever just going, oh, you you're looking to buy a house. Oh, I know a really good mortgage broker. Are you looking to sell a house? Oh, use this guy over here. So it's like I kind of never never left.

Speaker 4 14:55

Never left it.

Speaker 1 14:56

But then obviously COVID and a few bits and pieces happened in between.

Speaker 4 15:00

So so

How Marketing Became The New Path

Speaker 4 15:01

you so the marketing side to it.

Speaker 1 15:03

Yeah.

Speaker 4 15:03

Like um, how did how did you get into that? And like is it like going back to actually what you said about the was it squiggly squiggly career. Squiggly career, yeah. I remember being uh in when I was in my agency career, there was stuff I did outside, like I was a chairman of a networking group, I was a bidboard thingy. I used to get involved in it. People say, Why are you doing it? Why are you doing that? What are you doing? I go, I don't know, just interested in it. And something on the line, it's all gonna come together. I mean it was crazy enough. I went to some meeting, then went to a meeting, da-da-da, ended up with the Esters and then met Mark and it just all happened. So um your passion towards marketing, you've had this obviously one hat was a state agency career, another hat was your fitness. Yeah. Marketing.

Speaker 2 15:50

Yeah.

Speaker 4 15:51

Where did where did most businesses don't know how to market? You could I was only having a chat with my partner Curly the other day, finishing their counseling thing at the moment, and she said a lot of the people have just finished are struggling to try and um get clients. I said, it's not the problem with them being a counselor, it's the problem with their marketing.

Speaker 2 16:08

Yeah.

Speaker 4 16:08

And I haven't obviously spoken to it in the past, you know, like he said most agents are 20% um marketers and 80% estate agents, and have a kind of work in a different way. So like, how did where did marketing come into it for you?

Speaker 1 16:21

So because I was self-employed for six years and personal training back then didn't really bring it bring in big money because it's a bit like being a self-employed estate agent. There's only so much you can do, especially if people want you. So we were starting to use social media and things like that as Facebook was starting to become popular. Um and when I went on maternity leave from the estate agent I was working with, one of the first thing I did after having the baby was go on a social media course. So I was like, okay, maybe this is something I could bring back to the office as part of me coming back into a role. So I came back and I was like, guys, do you think maybe we should start doing some stuff with some social media? No. Okay, I really think it'd be a good idea. Yeah. Nope. Okay, fine, as it was. They've obviously gone on and got marketing in, you know, but you know, you live in your land, don't you? Um, and I think I've just always genuinely generally had an interest in it. And then just every role that I've done, I've had to do a bit more and a bit more and a bit more until such a point that I got offered to come and help run a marketing agency. But the

Building A Marketing Agency Operating Model

Speaker 1 17:40

reason why I was brought in is because I was used to working with small businesses or scaling businesses. So Rowan, who owned the marketing agency, said, Okay, I need you to come and help me do this small business thing, but I'm gonna need someone to be hands-on. And whatever you don't know, I will teach you. And I was like, that seems like a first swap. So let's do that. And uh yeah, like I was his second in in command to the point that quite often he would just be like, I'm just gonna Cindy. I think Cindy's in charge. I don't want to answer that question. Um, but he, yeah, from like a methodology perspective and application and results and reporting and all the things that is the actual marketing behind marketing, like the data, so to speak. He was the one that taught me everything.

Speaker 4 18:35

And and like in that period, what was what would you tend to be generally dealing with if I've because the problem I speak to agents with I say I want I need to get a marketing person. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, what to do what? And they're like, I would just do it all. Like I just wanted them to write a bit of content, yeah, do a bit more website, do some social media posts, do videos. I could probably videofer as well. Yeah. You know, it's like Swiss Army knife of all of it. So, like in that era, what period, what what was your main focus on when it comes to small businesses? Was it website development? Was it marketing strategy?

Speaker 1 19:10

So the way that we positioned ourselves was for scaling businesses. So we would come in and effectively, I guess consult effectively, and then we looked at what they were asking for and then built out the skill set around that. And one of the things, because I was bringing that operational side and strategic side to it, I helped build out a target operating model for the business, whereby we had the delivery function, so to speak. So your videographers, your graphic designers, et cetera, sort of propping up the base of the pyramid, feeding into account managers who then would feed into the client. The client would feed back to the account manager, they'd feed back down to the delivery function until you reached an agreement of the delivery of work. And the one thing that we absolutely refused to touch was uh website development. We were like, we're that's a whole different ball game. Everything else you can kind of either learn or uh take the time or bring the right people in or outsource, or whatever it may be. But website development is a and sort of tech development generally is a different beast. So we were like, we're not touching that. And that actually won us contracts with website developers because so many marketing agencies would go, yeah, we can do your website, don't you worry about that, and then it wouldn't deliver.

Speaker 4 20:36

No, and and I know you notice it quite a lot. Just it's almost like an a bolt on the side.

Speaker 5 20:42

Yeah.

Speaker 4 20:42

And then when you look at the crux of it, it's like it's not even it's just you've probably created the assets, and then you're saying, I'll just help you put it position where it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But not really know much more about it. Okay, so you were um God, it's gonna be so much we're gonna I can ask you on that. Um so how did how did it so you how did then come to arrive in you being now the marketing director where you are now?

Speaker 1 21:08

Okay,

The Call That Led To Avocado

Speaker 1 21:09

so What was the story on that one? Because we were a small business, the other thing that I had to do was obviously the sales side of it. And it was Rowan and I who would really go and do those calls and those meetings with people. Um and what was it? Weirdly, it was Mike, not Ian, who I saw was advertising for a marketing manager, and obviously that's where we kind of positioned ourselves as a business was to be that filling person. Like we will be your marketing manager, but for the cost of a marketing manager, you will get everything and some because the marketing manager, quite often, to your point of where does an estate agent hire first? They can't do it all. Yeah. So I um because I knew. Ian through various different routes of kids went to drama, and we were on the market with Avocado through Georgina and Sarah because I'd worked with Georgina previously at the estate agents. I just said to her, Oh, you know, um, get me, get me a call with Ian, would you? Like he knows who I am. And we get on that call. And um he said, Oh, I've looked at looked at your background. He's like, You're a you're an estate agent as well, weren't you? Yeah.

Speaker 2 22:27

Oh, you on your own. I think I've told this story before, but you on your own. It's a bit personal, but yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 22:35

Yeah, you do you be interested in it? And weirdly, uh I I I just I just knew straight away. I went downstairs and I spoke to my husband and I said, I've just spoken to Ian, he's basically kind of sort of offered me a job. He went, Well, you're gonna take it. He said, You you just you could do that. You could do that. And I thought, well, I'm gonna go and have a drink with him, yeah. And we'll go from there. So that's it.

Speaker 4 23:02

And then so, yeah. Just goes to show, like, you know, those styling doors.

Speaker 2 23:07

Yeah.

Speaker 4 23:08

And and actually being in position yourself at least in the room for you never know what happens with that. A meeting could turn into a meeting, an opportunity, opportunity turns into another partnership, whatever that might be. Um, okay, so what was she originally brought in to do? Because it's a having known Ian for quite a few years, like Mark and I met Ian here actually before even anyone knew about avocado.

Speaker 2 23:35

Yeah.

Speaker 4 23:35

And Ian, you know, having been on the Project Peer Performance podcast with Ian, spent many hours with him, as much as I'm sure you've spent even more hours with him. Like, his protection was like Ian's the man that does marketing, avocado. So, like, how was the how was that transition for you? And so what was you originally brought in to take away from Ian from a leadership perspective?

Speaker 1 24:04

So

Process First With Tickets And Priorities

Speaker 1 24:05

we've got to remember that avocado is part of a wider set of brands, and they've built out a house of brands effectively. Um so because of how I'd built out the target operating model for delivery to external clients, his request to me was could you do that for a group of internal clients? And to his credit, that's exactly what he's allowed me to do.

Speaker 5 24:29

Yeah.

Speaker 1 24:29

Um, so you know, what the expectation was is exactly what I've gone and done effectively, which is a nice feeling because so many people get missold a job, don't they? Um so it's kind of that management and strategic piece that when you're trying to think on behalf of five or six different businesses and you've got people pulling you in multiple different directions. I'm just there going, uh, this is what I'm here to do. I'm here to market for these brands. And you you you will come in with some weird weird and wonderful idea, and by God, we'll make that happen for you. But put it through the ticketing system and put it through the process because we need to be doing this in an order that works with what everybody else does.

Speaker 4 25:15

Not anyone randomly just run into your office and just say, I've got a next crazy idea.

Speaker 1 25:18

Absolutely.

Speaker 4 25:19

Like, yeah, that's fucking great, but like Yeah.

Speaker 1 25:22

And the ticketing system itself will will kind of call people out on that because they'll send in a ticket and we'll go back and go, okay, even though there's nine questions here, there's still very little information that you've given me. Yeah, exactly. Could you please explain to me what your thought process is behind that? Get no response. Okay, so it wasn't actually that important to you in the first place, was it? Like, okay.

Speaker 4 25:46

I've got a thing, I've got a thing on my iPad called ideas to dump.

Speaker 1 25:50

Uh-huh.

Speaker 4 25:50

And any stupid shit ideas that I think about, like maybe in the next yeah, not buying my 27th Go Daddy website domain, I think of the next idea.

Speaker 2 26:00

Yeah.

Speaker 4 26:01

I put it in this, and then I write it in there, and then I leave it there for a week, come back to it. One does it if it makes sense, and then I then go right and leave it for a month.

Speaker 2 26:10

Yeah.

Speaker 4 26:11

And it's like the filtration system, because I come back to a month later and thinking, fuck was I thinking? Like, cross that off. Like that's a stupid idea. They're gonna get me anywhere. Yeah. Um, okay, so um that must be quite rewarding because you know, you probably have more desire towards a feeling because you're can you're in the midst of all those humans every day, a single day, and and growth and development of their brands, which is a bit more a deeper in more deeper than what be what you do what you're doing. And obviously, it you're actually the controller of it as well. You know what I mean? You you can take all your ideas and collab with ideas, you're not just print it to someone and then make them still make a decision.

Speaker 2 26:49

Yeah.

Speaker 4 26:50

You're you're you're sort of helping to deliver that as

Rebrand Lessons From Soteria’s Makeover

Speaker 4 26:53

well. So um one point I'd I wanted to get on was you've done a recent rebrand with one of the uh groups, uh companies. Yeah. Um, off the back of coming to REX 10 event. And it's it comes, yeah. I've been now doing this side of the fence for for 5,000 hours, I think, now. Um and we talk about like a lot of agents be coming to talking about brand.

Speaker 5 27:24

Yeah.

Speaker 4 27:25

And then even this month, I was saying to one agent, I was like, it's great we've got AI now, but don't fucking put AI chat and make your own content logo because it looks like it looks like that random one I saw on a post on the other day, so it's obviously picked up the same thing. And when you lie against all your other branding, it just doesn't, it doesn't represent it, it looks just completely off. Um so like you did that for Jamie, and then obviously it was like it seemed like it was Jamie's brand originally. Oh yeah, and then you're trying to make it affect you growing up because you know, when you go for those first phrases of a logo, sometimes it's a bit like when my partner kills her at the moment, and I'm asking her more deeper questions about her cancer thing, and she's like, well, I just want a fucking logo rob.

Speaker 5 28:07

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 28:07

This looks cool. Um, so like, why why did you you come to EAX, you saw Sapna, and you thought, I like the concept of what she's got about, uh, she's quite a vibrant person in how she presents.

Speaker 5 28:21

Yeah.

Speaker 4 28:22

Um, and what she represents. That's the reason why we liked I wanted to get her on. So, like, what what was the next trigger point for in case someone an agency was sat there thinking, I've done a brand in maybe a couple of times, but it's never really gone much further. So, like, what was why did you go for that original process? Like, what would what was originally broken with the brand that you were working with?

Speaker 1 28:45

I think Ian put it quite nicely in uh the testimonial that we did was sat in as she came to the office recently and we sat down and she asked us questions, we asked her questions, and the videos have just gone out, started going out this week.

Speaker 2 29:00

Um there was like you say, she's vibrant and there's sorry, let me start on that again.

Speaker 1 29:11

Um it was too bitty, it was too outdated. It n it just it didn't resonate and it didn't hold weight. The reason why it was gaining traction was because uh Jamie is a prolific networker and he was carrying that business off himself, basically, rather than letting the brand carry him.

Speaker 5 29:41

Yeah.

Speaker 1 29:41

So he was kind of inverting it really, and he we needed to make the brand grow up and we needed to do it quickly, which is very much where Sapna plays, is that I'm gonna give you a phenomenal brand in a day.

Speaker 5 29:55

Yeah.

Speaker 1 29:55

And for you and I, who are two extremely busy people who want stuff done now, and we have to temper ourselves to there are processes and things take time and blah blah blah. If someone turns around to you and goes, I can do this for you in a day, and by the way, it's gonna be the mutts nuts, you're gonna go, all right, let's do it.

Speaker 4 30:14

Did it did it help you? Did it help you being with your creative background and what you've gone through? And and also same, yeah, with Ian as well, from being involved in the mix, and maybe I'm just thinking about as some agents out there, something I said it perfectly, how many people in the crowd have got like keys on their logo, a roof on their logo, a house on their logo, and like how many agents you see that go down that traditional side to it? So I'm just thinking, like when you when you come to that process, was there any particular questions that she asked that you had to really think about, or was you quite further down the line?

Speaker 1 30:53

We were we were a bit further down the line because the way that she does it is she she only allows two people in the room. So Jamie was not allowed to be in the room on his own company's rebrand.

Speaker 4 31:04

I saw the video actually, because he was like he'd done it before he actually seen it.

Speaker 1 31:07

Yeah.

Speaker 4 31:09

That's wild bold.

Speaker 1 31:11

It was. Um so yeah, basically he got blocked out of his own company's rebrand, which was tough, but he had done the upfront work.

Speaker 5 31:18

Yeah.

Speaker 1 31:19

Um, and he had told us, you know, the brands that mattered to him, why, and how that then linked back to the sort of service that he wanted to give from what was then Soteria planning, what is now Soteria estate planning.

Speaker 5 31:34

Yeah.

Speaker 1 31:34

And to Sapner's point of um, you know, how many of you have got keys and houses in relation to estate agents? Soteria, whilst we wanted the brand to grow up, was already a step ahead because within the will writing and estate planning sector, it was all pens and trees and certain colour schemes. Now, we already had a standout colour scheme in the sense that it's like these like golds and and quite like um charcoal y greys and and it just stood out from that basis. So we didn't really have to do anything there, which I think was actually one of the things that Jamie's been like, oh my god, how how off piece is this going to go? And then it was changes such as we can't really call it soteria planning, because that could mean anything.

Speaker 4 32:30

Yeah, I was thinking actually, actually, when you just said that makes sense because most people try and be a bit clever with it, but like planning literally could be architect. I thought automatically architects weddings, weddings, yeah.

Speaker 1 32:41

You're going through that in the moment. Yeah, like you imagine putting in soteria planning and then you get a will writer's coming through when you're trying to plan the best day of your life. Like, hmm, bit weird. Um, so yeah, so Sapner just kind of got us into a position that we could walk into the session and already be underway and know what we wanted out of it. And it's weird because you kind of have this real like momentum moment of up to lunchtime, and then you kind of come back after lunch and you're starting to look at um uh fonts and stuff like that, and you're a bit like, oh god, this this just isn't gonna come together. And then all of a sudden, you pull together everything you're just talking about from a visual perspective, you pull the brand font over, you look at the name change and you suddenly go, Why has nobody ever thought of that before? And it all just clicked in a moment. And Ian and I just looked at one number and went, Well, that was worth it.

Speaker 4 33:38

Yeah. So again, that it goes to show, like, you know, the experience of what she in her lead up to being able to deliver that, yeah. Companies that she'd worked with. Hence why I wanted we went when I came across her for EAX, I like the idea that she'd been working with some of the stages in the that in the UK, yeah. But her wealth of knowledge behind it clearly showed in the presentation, like those little fine things that she did in the presentation about how you can tweak the the imagery and the style and look how much before and after looked massively different.

Speaker 5 34:10

Yeah.

Speaker 4 34:11

Um we do something like we do it say it's not we don't do it's exactly our brand workshop we did for accelerate a program. It's what we find is very interesting is every person, the one of the key questions that comes up at the start of that day was how do we differentiate ourselves when we're all just selling at houses? And what's really interesting at the end of it, not necessarily we we go into the the tone brand, because it tends to be almost like that's the next level that they would go to someone like Sapner with. We get them to realise actually the understanding of the heart and soul of their brand, yeah, way beyond the logo, and then it makes it easier to then do it. Like I've always referenced uh Katie at number 86, phenomenal brand, and her core essence came back with bringing grey to the uh bringing colour to the grey world of astensity. Yeah. When you go on a website, it's all grey and it goes into her colour tones. When she's on her imagery, she's ripening off the thing, it's black and white, it goes into colour. But like before without doing that weird, random, just different sort of imaginatively thinking work, and you sat down with someone and said, right, I want to do a design a logo.

Speaker 5 35:15

Yeah.

Speaker 4 35:15

The amount of people that probably aren't like Sapner who'd have just gone, just should we change the oval and make it a circle and maybe change a little bit of the colour and just change one bit the font? And then you're like, oh, okay, that looks a bit more smart, and then not realising when it then gets represented into marketing, branding, future campaigns, what you're trying to get out of the videos, whatever that might be, that's the bit that ignites the brand. Um, so how was that then delivering it back to Jamie as the owner? Because that's like the hardest part. I love the idea of just not even the owner being in the room. Because when I when I actually I went for a rebranding with Regan, I sat down with the creative director, guy called James Palm Jones, phenomenal guy, and I sat down with him, we went through his design stuff, and I went away from the office and we had living designs. And we didn't, I didn't have anywhere else in there.

Speaker 2 36:06

Yeah.

Speaker 4 36:06

And I almost came back with like the sort of next version, next one, the fucking wildcard.

Speaker 2 36:12

Yeah.

Speaker 4 36:12

And then like we had this heated argument afterwards because he was like, well, we've always traditionally been this way. So how did how was that received?

Speaker 2 36:20

Uh it was a bit scary.

Speaker 1 36:25

But I think because we'd kept so much of the essence of it, I think he was expecting us to go. Especially especially when you're coming from like avocado yeah.

Speaker 4 36:37

Yeah.

Speaker 1 36:38

Exactly. But um, I think he'd also kind of been discouraged from doing um what we did. And kind of right, I guess rightly so in many ways, because you are giving away an element of control of a business that you've spent a long time building. So Ian sat down with him initially and said, look, this is what we've come up with. And he just loved it. Um, so then we sat the rest of the team down and took them through a full presentation and just helped with the buy-in behind it. Um and that's kind of just filtered on beyond that because we can play with the brand now, we can enjoy the brand. People are hyped up about it, they're they're just in a better place about it. Could you imagine being excited to do marketing for a will writing company? Yeah.

Speaker 5 37:38

Yeah.

Speaker 1 37:39

Let's make that subject exciting.

Speaker 4 37:43

Even like, I'm just thinking like, just back to like when you usually come across will not writing companies. You know what I mean? Like I I was doing a I was helping out at a local fanet business, independent business thing at like a retail park. Yeah. And like we had our keep talking service at a uh uh East Kent Mines tent and we had a talking therapy bit to drop in. It was next to the fucking wheel writing. So I was thinking like, how much of a worse a place? Do you want to put two b uh two entities in it? So like that was the one I was gonna ask. Like, what what has what's been the main changes you you you probably you pretty much answered, but what have been the main changes since before just changing a logo to then the new lamp logo rather than just being uh the exciting things of like, oh, it's uh the car website now, and oh look at the board or look at the whatever it is. Like, what what's what's it meant energy-wise behind the scenes?

Speaker 1 38:43

Yeah. Um, this is actually in one of the videos that I captured with Sapnap, but as adults, we very rarely get to play and have fun, especially when it comes to work. Like, how many people do we know that don't enjoy their role, their day-to-day, they moan about the jobs, blah, blah, blah. My team gets to come in and have fun with a brand and a topic that effectively isn't a lot of fun.

Speaker 5 39:10

Yeah.

Speaker 1 39:11

And that energy just translates. So even just I was looking at one of the team, um, Sophie, she's put together these testimonial Tuesday things, quite a standard thing within a service-based industry, but she's just made it that much better on the eye, jazzier, and and the logo and what we've done with the brand just lends itself to that in a way that it just didn't before. I don't know, maybe it's a vibe, maybe I just see it. I can't, I can't explain that.

Speaker 4 39:41

I think it probably is right, because having known Jamie and you could see, like, and if most estate industries would probably relate to this, that the owner sets up they the this the logo is almost secondary because the human comes first to build the brand. Yeah. And that will always remain that way until you understand that if you want to build a proper business, you have to get the logo beyond the brand. Yeah. And that's the thing, and then you've got the humans working in the brand afterwards. Yeah. And like Jamie probably would have done that because you know he's on LinkedIn and he puts a pint of beer up and just talks about some normal stories that's a relatable.

Speaker 1 40:14

Um gets a huge amount of traction.

Speaker 4 40:16

Yeah, and that's the sort of stuff. But like, if like you said, if the brand didn't represent that, yeah, now it does, it's some it's just an extension of Jamie's feelings towards it, and Jamie the way he is character character-wise, yeah, then you would probably find I don't know, David, who still does wheel writing and he's done this for 40 years and it's got a very traditional logo with the thingy.

Speaker 5 40:38

Yeah.

Speaker 4 40:38

And like for me, like it comes back to the calling, no different than what probably stated out there. If like I would look at Jamie and I'd be thinking, right, I want to do my will with someone like him. Because I'd probably actually be able to sit down and have a normal conversation with him. Yeah, yeah. I'd just feel uncomfortable with David who does the world right and he's like done it for 40 odd years, I'd probably probably be more inclined to go and deal with him.

Speaker 2 41:01

Yeah.

Speaker 4 41:01

And and I think that's probably with a lot of a state agency out there. So um there's two questions I want to

Apprenticeships Done Right In Marketing

Speaker 4 41:07

ask.

Speaker 2 41:07

Yeah.

Speaker 4 41:07

Uh, you mentioned about your teams.

Speaker 2 41:09

Yeah.

Speaker 4 41:09

So having works with your teams now, I I don't necessarily message you, or we don't we don't talk as much to do anymore. Um because you've got teams that do stuff behind the scenes now, and you've got some of have have some or all of them come from apprenticeships.

Speaker 1 41:26

The team that I have now are all through apprenticeships.

Speaker 4 41:30

See, this is this is fucking awesome. Because I it was any conversation we had to someone the other day, and they were like, oh, do we do apprenticeships with new AI coming in? Do we outsource it to abroad? So, like we had we we with we tried to do apprenticeships years ago, and it was fucking horrendous, right? Yeah, the the people that came through, like I remember being with one guy, he was a lovely guy, but I was like, we had a in those days a policy of like still being smart in the office, and I'd like, where's your belt? And he's like, I haven't got one. I was like, I'm gonna go and fucking buy you a belt. Like, and then we'd buy a belt, and then he'd go home, he'd come back in the same suit the next day without the belt. I'm like, How? Yeah, pull your trousers off, put it up, like and I was like, And we had another girl who decided to shout out the window at someone, and I was thinking, like, oh my god. So, like, what's uh how did how did that process work for you?

Speaker 1 42:22

Do you do it via a college or is it by a company or uh so two of them I inherited, to be fair, and I helped them get through the end of their apprenticeship, but they were pretty much there or thereabouts anyway. And because of how well they'd integrated into the business via this scheme, yeah, um, government, I think it's government backed, um uh they we then took the decision to go let's get two more.

Speaker 2 42:55

And the way that we went about it, it was a bit cruel really now that I think about it.

Speaker 1 43:02

But we did a group interview, had eight of them in a room and effectively just went around the room and kind of just got a gauge of who kind of had something about them. And I tell you what, Rob the skill set that the generation now are bringing in, because bearing in mind, I'm working with this group at 18 to 22 and I'm 37. So I am old enough, just about to be that mum. And they will remind me of that on a daily basis. Um, but the skill set that they're bringing in, like they were telling me, like all eight of them. Oh, I've built websites, you know, probably basic ones, but even so. Oh, I do photography. Oh, I'm planning to do my first um wedding photography shoot next year. Um, I've been doing an apprenticeship at a church for the last year, and I've I've helped grow their social media presence by this much. Oh, I'm a TikToker, and you know, I've got this amount of following, and I do TikTok battles, and I spend hours doing this. And you just think, what? Wow. Like you are coming in with such a skill set that I can guarantee you I didn't have. Like I think about the first, I say proper job, but my like job that I had alongside doing my A levels, where I I worked in the kitchens of nursing homes.

Speaker 4 44:19

That was fucking Sainsbury's checkout.

Speaker 1 44:22

Exactly. The only reason I got that job is because nobody else wanted it. And my mum had worked in nursing homes and I was used to being around old people because she'd take me in with her. And I knew how nursing homes worked, right? And I could, I could kind of play that part. Tell you what, it was really good money as well. But anyway, that's by the by. Um, but that's all I had to give. These lot, I'm sat there going, I could I could hire any of you right now, and you'd fit in and you'd you'd provide value. So then I had to make the decision to whittle that down to 50%. So get four back and interview them, and then whittle that down again to another two. Surprisingly hard work based on what they all had to offer.

Speaker 4 45:08

But do you think that comes because of the the brands that you've got? Because I was thinking, like, you know, imagine imagine being one of those people and then going to work in a normal traditional estate agency that doesn't really do to do like you're in you may maybe redo a little property thing, or maybe like nope, you've got to sit there at that desk, you know, go out, you know, do for no, what do you mean? Going on camera and doing those bits. No, it needs to be scripted. We need to sit there and script this out, like getting sitting at your desk and making phone calls to random people in the hope to do some business. Like, it probably helps. I mean, you probably had the eight because of the the talent that you attracted on the initial like recruitment drive. Because people probably look at you and think, fucking oh, yeah, that's a cool brand I'd work with, rather than just some traditional agency that hasn't changed in like 40 years. Or even like, you know, a state agency in marketing. Imagine going for an interview, guys, compared to an um a traditional one who's getting into marketing. What do you want me to do? I don't know. Like, what do you think I should be doing? Like, at least with your directive where you want to go, you're probably thinking, right, uh these what tools are we seeking to fulfill?

Speaker 2 46:23

Yeah.

Speaker 4 46:23

And how can we come how can we use humans to to to build them out in those tools? So how long how long do they usually how long how long does the apprenticeship scheme last? And is it is it them work in view one day a week, two days a week, full-time?

Speaker 1 46:37

Um, so it's about an 18-month period.

Speaker 4 46:40

Yeah.

Speaker 1 46:40

Um, and they're in with us four days a week and they get one day a week from home to work on their apprenticeship. So, you know, as and when they're at a point where hopefully they pass. Um they should do. And um and then go into the office, you're kind of gaining X amount of days a month back off each person. And when Mark talks about that sort of revenue per employee and what they can provide to the business, etc., um, you kind of look at that how that math weighs up and you go, yeah, that's actually really good as a business plan. Um, and um, like I say, I like thinking in target operating models of okay, if we do this, how does that impact the business going up?

Speaker 4 47:24

And that's it, that's that and that's the bit the skill set of having someone like you in than just being a marketer. Yes. You're it's a it strategic operational marketing of where we're going with the brand, yeah, rather than just I do marketing because I've been told I just need to. I only wrote an article about this last night actually, talking about like the difference between just marketing and like the operational side to all of it. The strategic thinking around what you you're actually doing. Yeah, yeah. And it probably helps when you come to that because you know, rather than going, I just need we need someone, you're probably sat there strategically thinking, why do you need to employ these people? And at the end of the 18 months, what's the game goal? Not just say I need a marketer to fill a hole because I can't be fucked to do this. Yeah. And I'll probably give to them, and they're probably thinking, okay, well, what am I supposed to be doing? I don't know, just do marketing.

Speaker 1 48:16

Yeah.

Speaker 4 48:16

And then you're probably three or four or five months down the line thinking, fucking paying this person for.

Speaker 1 48:21

That is the one thing I would say about the market um the marketing team, sorry, the apprenticeship schemes is that you as the employer need to be fully invested in bringing these people on. So, you know, the schemes comes with its frustrations and its roadblocks and all those things that you just think, oh like with any sort of awarding body, etc. It's just like, why can't you work around me and not the other way around? Right. Um, but I feel like if you take the driving, passing you driving test analogy, is that they're giving them the car. I'm teaching them how to drive. So when they need to know something or they want to go deeper on something, I'm the one there telling them, you know, about email campaigns, GDPR, you know, all of those technical things that go with marketing, how to look at the data, how to read it, what it means. And then also look at it from an industry perspective as well. What does it mean to an estate agent? Like I say to me, you know, you've got to start reading uh property-related articles and understanding the stats behind this because you know the end consumer is not actually our client. Yeah.

Speaker 4 49:39

The the estate agents are the language we use and word and all sorts of stuff like that.

Speaker 1 49:43

Exactly. You've got to understand their position so they can help their clients. So something that keeps coming back to me because I think about this team and I think about how much they've grown in the 18 months that I've been with avocado, is that if you're going to go down the route of bringing in apprentices, is you have to be as prepared to learn from them as they are prepared to learn from you. Because, like I say, I'm teaching them all of that, but by God, there's stuff that they school me on. Like I was I was making a reel at the weekend on a person on my personal Instagram, and I had to text Austin and be like, Austin, I'm trying to get this audio off this, and I can't find the template on Capcut, and I've asked chat, and I can't quite understand the term like that. And he was going, just press here and download it, and it will just come up as a template on Instagram for you. I was like, Oh, for God's sake, really? He's like, Yeah, mate.

Speaker 4 50:44

But going back to what you said originally, you know, when you said you were back in that space where you went from agency into that room, and you said, This don't work for a location here. Yeah. And they're going, okay. And then they listened.

Speaker 2 50:55

Yeah.

Speaker 4 50:56

That's the key part to all of it. And I think like, like you just said there, like, like obviously in the earlier years, your skill set that what you were to deliver, yeah, was not understood by the agencies that you're working with. Hence why you've now squiggled to the point where that actually has come true. And I probably think the same thing. I think with a lot of uh people see that the younger industry is lazy, but it's like but what you just what what's your definition of lazy? Is your definition of lazy is that they're sitting doing videos and making reels and things like that. And you're thinking, no, that's like the new era of people coming through. So they're not lazy, it's just the fact that you've just you're being lazy to not even adjust to the world that we we're moving, if not not moving into, we have moved into.

Speaker 5 51:42

Yeah.

Speaker 4 51:42

And if you're not capitalising on that talent, that intellect, the IP that they probably have done that, you know, like Austin's probably done hours working that shit out. Oh, I'm and like you've gone, it's well, it's like simple, push that button, push that button, and you're like, and you're like, okay, but like, but to to to going back to the whole recruitment side to it, like the the apprentice side to it and marketing in general, I think like if you are seeking thinking, well, I do need it is it's not I do need so many agents to speak to talk about they need a marketeer, but obviously they haven't got necessarily a a selection of brands for someone to then employ someone like you to work under it, because like it's a it's a weird one having been on the other side of the fence. I'd be like, if I was paying, if I was paying this person, this person, yeah, I'd rather pay a marketeer if I'm if I've got the money and budget than paying a neg. Yeah. Because without the marketeer, without the leads, without the marketing, without nothing, you don't get the business. So even for a neg to put the key for the door, and if you think a neg can do marketing, then you're completely screwed. Yeah. Um, so final question, because I realise I'm I keep talking and talking and talking.

Future Of Estate Agency And AI

Speaker 4 52:58

Um what do you feel is like the future of a state agency I always like to come to? What do you what do you feel um you see the industry doing well and what do you see the industry doing quite badly at the moment, where do you reckon you feel they need to improve?

Speaker 1 53:16

I think as an industry, we don't look outside of ourselves enough. We don't pick up enough on how other industries have found success. You know, look at how long it took us to jump on social media. And now if we feel like everybody's on social media because that's the circles that we move in within the industry, but that's just not true.

Speaker 5 53:38

Yeah.

Speaker 1 53:39

Not everybody is. And I think as an industry, we need to open our minds to things. Like we've we've just talked around what we can learn from others, regardless of their age group or whatever. And I think it's just struck me that one of the fears around AI coming, taking people's jobs is that we don't understand AI. So therefore, we don't understand the opportunities that could open up as to what new jobs could come along for the ride alongside AI. You know, if you think about the Industrial Revolution, people are worried about what jobs would look like on the other side of that. So, you know, there's always going to be something on the other side. You just have to be open to that. And I feel like as an industry, we're we're quite closed off. I think maybe with a younger generation coming through, we will kind of throw away the the shackles of how things have been done versus how they will be done. It will take a bit of time to work its way through. Um obviously I'm a massive advocate for self-employed estate agency. I see that as a way forward, maybe not the way forward, but for a huge majority of people, I think that is beneficial and it works with family or hobbies or passions or whatever it may be. And I think the rise in self-employed estate agency is a great thing. But again, I think the wider industry needs to wake up to that and appreciate the value that self-employed estate agency brings to the gang.

Speaker 4 55:30

Self-employed agency is a hard one because I see it's done so well with you guys having done the the come to your days and and the culture you've provided within that. I think the main concern I've got with the self-employed model is it comes with the barrier to entry into agency as well.

Speaker 5 55:54

Yes.

Speaker 4 55:55

And that's a bit like I was only thinking about this. Uh Carl, we were looking at researching into uh houses in the future where we want to move over to.

Speaker 5 56:02

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 4 56:03

It's really weird. I sat next to her and she said, right, typed it in Google, didn't go to right move.

Speaker 5 56:10

Okay.

Speaker 4 56:11

Houses to buy in Reculva.

Speaker 5 56:14

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 4 56:14

And I was like, and then she was like, clicked it, I went on the market. And I was like, fuck are you doing? She was like, and I was asking, she was like, Whoa, whoa, what I've done something wrong here. I was like, no, no, I want to know the psychology. Yeah, yeah. Why did you not go to Wright Move? She was like, I thought I just went to Google and just typed in houses to buy near Reculva because Google's more likely to find me all the listings in that area. And then she clicked on the first one, it was on the market. And I thought, wow, that's mad, isn't it? They're like, that was you're just naturally going back to the whole thing, naturally just shume. Everyone, everyone goes to right move, everyone does it that way, or everyone goes to a particular way. Um, and I feel like you guys do it differently, but I feel like everyone's moaning at right move being too expensive.

Speaker 5 57:00

Yeah.

Speaker 4 57:01

And like Kelly and I haven't a conversation about that the other day, and then actually on the way uh to pick up the kids actually in the nursery yesterday, and she hit it on the net. And I thought, what's really interesting, everyone moans at right move being too expensive. But if right move wasn't expensive, the entry to anyone could jump on any time. And then you've got a greater problem out there. Because if you want everything for free or everything for cheap, anyone could be an estate agent right now, you could anyone could be a self-employed model, and then all of a sudden, like you've got not just like one brand that's got maybe five or six people in the area, you've got five or six people out there as individual brands. And obviously, you guys do it differently because you have obviously a particular model where everyone takes certain regions, but also you have this culture network built around all of it and the type of person you work with it.

Speaker 2 57:50

Yeah.

Speaker 4 57:50

But then you've got other models who just like like I've got one I speak to, and I I chat I chatted to her ages ago, and they were like, I hate the other people that work in my area because I don't like what they do. And you think it's mental, like how there's gonna be a point where self-employed will I feel might implode.

Speaker 1 58:12

Yeah, that's an interesting thought process. And uh I'll pick on something, pick up on something that you said there that anybody could become a state agent under a self-employed model. I mean, technically, anybody could become a state agent anyway.

Speaker 5 58:26

Yeah.

Speaker 1 58:27

You just have to go and work for somebody because you know it could be a viewing person with a side. Well, exactly.

Speaker 4 58:34

Like why should I fill in your PT business?

Speaker 1 58:37

What do I know about it?

Speaker 4 58:39

Cindy was an estate agent. She did some viewings around some houses.

Speaker 1 58:43

Exactly. Oh, by the way, I also run a Pilates class at 6 30 on a Monday.

Speaker 4 58:47

Yeah.

Speaker 1 58:48

Um but yeah, so I guess there isn't that qualification. There isn't that the yeah, the low the bar the barrier to entry is the costs, which is where the brokerages come into play. I think Avocado is particularly strong and has done the stats that it does. You know, for example, I was looking at some stats um this morning, just looking at 2025, and you know, we outperformed the market at um, I think it was the exchange rate of 78% versus 54% of whole of market. And you just think, well, that's because we're working with experienced knowing agents who have kind of earned their stripes, but they just want to be able to make the running of their business so much easier because they will be the first people to tell you that being an estate agent and running a business are two very different things.

Speaker 4 59:52

And we've got like we've got brands, people that we've worked in in our accelerate programme with 20 years, 25 years down the line of being having their brand.

Speaker 2 59:59

Yeah.

Speaker 4 59:59

They come for and they go, fucking hell, I only realise I've just been running, I haven't even been running a business, I've just been running something that looks like a business that I just try to extend out from when I first started my own. Do you think there's a duty for the self-employed models to hold the credibility to the agents they recruit?

Speaker 1 1:00:18

I think there is a duty to help agents beyond just offering a brand and um also to the public?

Speaker 2 1:00:28

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:00:30

I think if we're changing how the industry works, then let's change how the industry works.

Speaker 4 1:00:37

But then I think that comes back to like full circle, maybe it comes back to the whole like strategic way of looking at from a marketing perspective, whatever kind of represents the heart and soul of everything, isn't it? Yeah. And like it's the whole mission is to change the perception of how people how people see you, like, you know, how your kids see, you know, like you mentioned before, you mentioned on the previous podcast, that cheap I've been. You mentioned about like being proud that you you see your family members wear the hoodies and stuff like that and promote it, and but without all of that, if it was just going back to the marketing and just I don't know, we just need to get people on board and they just sell in their houses and just we take a bit of commission off them and they take a majority of it, and they probably and then they wonder why down the line they're probably thinking, like, I'm even doing it for this company, I'll just go and do it on my own.

Speaker 1 1:01:29

Yeah. And like I've said to you before, the fact that my kids get excited about me going to work, I mean, it helps that our local partners sponsor their school fate and things like that. Mummy says that. Yeah, literally, they'll be like, Oh, that's mummy. Mummy works for avocado. Um, but it's things like, you know, we'll be walking around the estate and they're like, Mam, ma'am, there's an avocado board. Literally, the whole estate can hear at this point that there's an avocado board at like Scots Chase. Um, but also just things like I remember driving around High Wickham once and um I said, Look, girls, there's an avocado board. I said, What do we say? And one of them went, avocado property, and the other one went sold.

Speaker 4 1:02:12

Yeah, it's brilliant.

Speaker 1 1:02:14

Awesome.

Speaker 4 1:02:14

Right. Um,

Final Thoughts And Thanks

Speaker 4 1:02:15

I could carry on talking to you and now we always do that. But um, yeah, being an I really I I enjoyed this. Um, I hope you enjoyed it out there for listeners out there. Um, but thanks for coming on, Cindy. Thanks for watching. Appreciate your time today.

Speaker 1 1:02:26

No, loved it. Thank you very much.

Speaker 1:02:28

Thanks for listening to this Estate Agency X podcast. Can you make sure that you're actually subscribed to this podcast channel if you liked the content? Uh it helps us massively to get better guests, and it just helps us generally. So you might think you're subscribed, but just have a double check, whatever your um podcast platform of preference is, that you're actually subscribed, and then that way we can continue to grow the channel and get better and better guests for you.